Re: <nettime> At Doge, AI faith has fully fused with Christian Nationalism

[Steven Kurtz via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>]

Hello André,

The ending of Gaza in whatever form and the annexation of the West Bank are necessary for Jesus to return. For Biden, the complicity came out of his centrist commitment to prudence. Bush 1 had this idea too. The US has a lot of bureaucratic, economic, and military ties to Israel, so it's not prone to sudden policy shift even in the face of atrocity. The CNs are on board with this too...however, they add to the formula dispensation (for the evangelicals). Dispensation comes in a number of forms pending one's denomination. For some there is the rapture. For others Jesus comes to give the Jews and the Muslims a chance to convert. Those who refuse he kills. And sometimes He comes and just kills all the Jews and there is a river of blood that flows to China. But dispensation (the movement to a new historical era [in this case, final?]) can only occur if Israel is a stable Jewish ethnic state. This is why CN Mike Huckaby,  who does not believe there is such a people as the Palestinians, has been appointed as Ambassador to Israel. He has a plan for acceleration, as does Jesus.

Thiel, I can't help you with. He is crafty. It's hard to know what he really thinks about CN. He may well be a cynic playing what he can. Notice he does not come out as Catholic or Evangelical. My speculation is he is playing the field until he has a better idea of who will come out on top. His protege, VP JD Vance has bet Catholic in recent years.

One thing I will note is what CNs mean by "injustice," and what I think almost everyone on this list means by the term is in no way similar. Thiel is using the code in the quote offered.
________________________________
From: nettime-l <nettime-l-bounces@lists.nettime.org> on behalf of André Rebentisch via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2025 3:48 AM
To: <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
Cc: André Rebentisch <tabesin@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> At Doge, AI faith has fully fused with Christian Nationalism

Thank you for the insights, Brian, Allan and Steven.

One question: The Gaza beach resort and displacements.
What does that mean here for the Christian nationalist base?
.
When I read the Peter Thiel's essay The Straussian Moment, on p.214
he sounds like he is making a cynical pun:
"The Christian statesman or stateswoman must diverge from the teachings
of Strauss in one decisive respect. Unlike Strauss, the Christian statesman
or stateswoman knows that the modern age will not be permanent, and
ultimately will give way to something very different. One must never forget
 that one day all will be revealed, that all injustices will be exposed,
and that
 those who perpetrated them will be held to account."

Given the daily flow of madness, a full-fledged program to baptize
Gaza and the Middle East does not appear far-fetched to me.

"The Baywatch-Crusade of St. Donald"

Best, André

Am Mo., 24. März 2025 um 20:05 Uhr schrieb Steven Kurtz via nettime-l <
nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>:

> CN is much more than a KKK rebirth. To be sure, it's a white supremacist
> movement.  The Restorationists just want the white Christian consensus lost
> in the 60s back in place. They consider that loss to be the greatest
> catastrophe of the 20th century. The Reconstructionists want a full on
> straight white patriarchal theocratic state. The Catholic Integralists
> (although technically incorrect, I use CN for them too as their general
> goals are aligned) want the same as the Reconstructionists but with a
> different theological take. It is amazing that the truce brokered back in
> the 80s and 90s between the reformationists and counter-reformationists has
> held. I imagine if the CNs consolidate power the conflict will start again,
> and heresy will become the greatest of concerns regarding crimes against
> the state. Should the CNs consolidate power it will be bad for everyone who
> is not a straight white male. Israel, Russia, and to a slighter lesser
> degree, Hungary are their models for governance. Israel is their model for
> citizenship, but even so, Christian women will be of a lower class in terms
> of rights and privileges. The folks who are the most afraid are liberal
> (mostly white) Christians who try to reflect the Gospel and the life of
> Jesus. They speak Christian very well so they know the target that is on
> their back, and they are responding. CN is not just a reaffirmation of Jim
> Crow, they plan on settling all the scores with all the peoples of the
> decadent West, and it's their model of Christianity (which as far as I can
> tell isn't Christian at all) that will set the agenda of building a global
> Christian state. (The new expansionist rhetoric, while not totally CN, and
> especially the new alliance with Russia is not coming out of left field,
> it's in the plan.)
>
> When Jesus came, He brought the kingdom of God and He expects His
> kingdom-minded people to take whatever action is needed to push back the
> long-standing kingdom of Satan and bring the peace and prosperity of His
> kingdom here on earth.
> —C Peter Wagner CN leader in the Northwest Redoubt
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: nettime-l <nettime-l-bounces@lists.nettime.org> on behalf of Allan
> Siegel via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2025 5:16 AM
> To: nettime-l@lists.nettime.org <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> Cc: Allan Siegel <allansiegel@internet-mail.org>
> Subject: Re: <nettime> At Doge, AI faith has fully fused with Christian
> Nationalism
>
> Hello,
> What is here being labelled as Christian Nationalism is a misnomer; what
> it signifies is a white supremacist ideology that is embedded in the DNA
> of the culture and history of the USA. The 'Christian/Evangelical'
> elements are a moral veneer for the deep-rooted racist & misogynist
> elements that pre-date the Civil War and continuously appear throughout
> American History. The Scarlet Letter, The Crucible, It Can't Happen Here
> are various representations of this along with Jim Crow Laws (whose
> origins predate apartheid), the Yellow Peril, various anti-immigrant
> agitations, etc...
>
> I would suggest that Obama represented a kind of 'tipping point' which
> facilitated, with other factors of course, the emergence of the Trumpist
> cabal. Not so much because of Obama's politics (which were basically
> mainstream Democrat) but because of the fact that he was African
> American: an anathema to the Trump base.
>
> The Democrats have been unable to counter the ascendancy of this
> Neo-Fascist political block because they are stuck in a NeoLiberal
> whirlpool of political fantasies and slogans long past their sell-by
> date. They are not fighting against this onslaught because they have
> faint clues about what they should be fighting for.
>
> I don't mean to be glib about this but simply wanted to add my two cents
> to the discussion.
>
> best
> allan
>
>
> On 24/03/2025 02:36, Steven Kurtz via nettime-l wrote:
> > Tech initiatives like to use Christian/occult codes to explain to people
> outside their specialization what they are doing while at the same time
> puffing themselves up.  The Human Genome Project did this quite well.
> Teachers do the same usually for more down-to-earth reasons. However,
> because there can be a common rhetoric or code sharing it doesn't mean
> there is any real relationship.
> >
> > I just spent two years deep in the hole of US Christian nationalism
> (CN). The book is coming out soon, so allow me to report a few general
> observations on this subject.
> >
> > Only on rare occasion have I ever heard them discuss digital technology
> in any abstract way. The rare occasions when it does come up concerns
> eradicating porn and information control (only in terms of censorship). On
> no occasion have I heard them discuss AI. They do not care. That is not the
> world they live in.
> >
> > The CNs passionately hate (and "hate" may be too modest of a word)
> libertarians in general and Tech Bros (TBs) in particular as they are tools
> of, if not possessed by, Satan. The orange One, whom they must obey, has
> made room for these enemies of Christendom, so for now they must be
> tolerated. This does not mean the CNs are passive. They have surrounded
> Trump the best they can to keep their advice going in his ear, and the
> other factions' out. Surrounding Trump on a daily basis or near daily basis
> are:
> > Susie Wiles—White House Chief of Staff. Christian Nationalist
> accommodator (i.e., she believes most of the Christian Nationalist
> project). Supporter of DeSantis. Florida being the testing ground for many
> Christian nationalist policies.
> > Russ Vought—Office of Management and Budget He is the most dangerous of
> Trump’s enablers. Fanatically committed to Chistian Nationalism, he
> oversees everyday white house affairs. He knows how the system works.
> Contributor to Project 2025 and wrote many of the executive orders.
> > Charles Ezell—Acting Director, Office of Personnel Management. The man
> carrying out the DOGE firings. Christian nationalist.
> > Kristi Noem—Secretary of Homeland Security. Devoted Christian
> nationalist. The Godliest governor.
> > Doug Burgum—Secretary of the Interior (tries to hide it his Christian
> nationalist affiliations. Poses as a libertarian elite.)
> > Pam Bondi—Attorney General (She will prosecute whomever Trump says and
> will structure the Department of Justice as Trump wants it. The Jenna Ellis
> (Christian nationalist) of the new Trump administration. If not a Christian
> nationalist, she is a Christian devoted to her role as an accommodator. She
> will also make sure Trump cannot be held in criminal contempt by any court,
> and that he and his chosen are never charged with any crime.
> > Pete Hegseth—Secretary of Defense (The man has "Deus Vult" tattooed on
> him. Need I say more?)
> > Tom Homan—Border Czar. Christian nationalist. Contributor to Project
> 2025.
> >
> > Against the CNs in office are the Bannon rank and file voters (many of
> whom are CNs). Bannon's and his populism are out. Musk And his Technocratic
> Republic friends are in Trump's good graces as long as the pay-off
> continues. What they are doing the CNs are mostly Ok with. The short-term
> outcomes both factions want mostly align. Why they want them couldn't be
> more different, as are the desired long-term outcomes.  The TBs aren't
> worried about the CNs as they seem to believe (I am out over my skis here)
> their money makes them protected by the law, but in no way bound to it, so
> they are untouchable and may do as they please.  However, Trump will not
> always be around, and when that happens the TBs underestimate the CNs at
> their own peril. Finally, the dark horse is Scott Besset (Secretary of
> Treasury). CNs and TBs both hate him, of course for different reasons. He
> is where all the  eco-detox, threaten and attack your allies and trading
> partners with denying US market access and protection, and tariff ideas are
> coming from.
> >
> > I said this on Nettime many years ago and I will say it again now for
> those interested in understanding the CNs—learn to speak Christian. They
> speak in code that requires training to understand. Second, throw
> categories of political economy and investigations to follow the money into
> the trash. That is not how they operate. Profit is not what motivates them.
> Angelic and demonic intervention, miracles, prophecy, possession,
> providence, dispensation (for the evangelicals), revelation, awakening,
> etc. is the world they live in and respond to.
> >
> > Finally, they do not see themselves as cruel. They are doing what is
> necessary to spread the gospel and save souls. They are saving people from
> eternal cruelty. They love the end of USAID in sub-Saharan Africa, because
> they want to see disease and famine flourish in a time when there are the
> fewest charitable organizations to turn to other than the missionaries they
> are training and sending as fast as they can.
> >
> > The CNs have the Supreme Court, control the Senate agenda (John Thune)
> and House agenda (Mike Johnson), have surrounded the president, and have
> their man in charge of the military (Pete Hegseth). The great irony is
> Trump is who is protecting the US from becoming a theocratic state,
> unfortunately it may be his legacy. They have been planning this coup for
> almost half a century. They do nothing just for the fun/cruelty of it.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: nettime-l<nettime-l-bounces@lists.nettime.org> on behalf of Felix
> Stalder via nettime-l<nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2025 8:32 AM
> > To:nettime-l@lists.nettime.org <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> > Cc: Felix Stalder<felix@openflows.com>
> > Subject: Re: <nettime> At Doge, AI faith has fully fused with Christian
> Nationalism
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/22/25 20:39, Brian Holmes via nettime-l wrote:
> >> JDV does not (yet) say AI is God.
> > On 3/23/25 06:28, Louis Rawlins via nettime-l wrote:
> >
> >> Brian, totally with you on "not-yet-fused" but I'd say it's the
> >> power of what people are being convinced of that matters.
> >> Propaganda. Agit-prop. We're deep in that phase now.
> > I don't think this is Agitprop. Yes, there are the entertainers, like
> > Trump and Musk, the incompetent loyalists at the top of many federal
> > institutions, but this feeds well into a coordinated effort to dismantle
> > the federal government. Bannon called for a long time for the
> > destruction of the "administrative state". People are getting fired, and
> > the rest demoralized.
> >
> > Then, of course, it depends on what fully-fused means. I think on the
> > ground, as a coalition of dismantlement, the difference is pretty
> > minimal. They seem quite united in the face of a common enemy, which
> > Adam Tooze recently identified as the "professional managerial class",
> > who not only provided the core of the Democratic Party, but also the
> > expertise within liberal institutions. From this perspective, the twin
> > attacks on federal institutions and universities makes a lot of sense.
> >
> > There are also a lot of ideological, or at least vibey, connections
> > between right-wing tech-culture and Christian nationalism, ranging from
> > nativism/family values, incel/patriarchy, sea-steadying/self-sufficient
> > religious communities, social automation/authoritarianism, to
> > singularity/rupture. The list could probably go on and would need to
> > include white supremacy prominently.
> >
> > There is a long argument about much of advanced technology being a form
> > of secular religion -- like when people asked astronauts if they had
> > seen god, or when tech-bros speak immortality through "hacking death".
> > And even if people like JDV do not call AI good, the only cultural model
> > we have for AGI is, well, god.
> >
> > So, in terms of forming an agent capable of coherent destructive action,
> > I think these two forces are pretty well-aligned.
> >
> > Whether they are fused enough to agree on a vision of re-construction, I
> > doubt, but perhaps this is not necessary, at least in the short- to
> > media term. You can already see how different groups are getting their
> > agendas satisfied in ways that seem to give each what they want (say,
> > access to military budgets), while not being too much bothered by what
> > the other gets (say, destruction of the Department of Education). Plus a
> > hefty dose of symbolic cruelty for rest, say, destruction of USAID and
> > deportation to El Salvador (these are, of course, not symbolic for the
> > people affected, on the contrary, but for the people perpetrating it, in
> > the sense that they are not affected by the consequences).
> >
> >
> > If that enough in the longer perspective, I doubt, but we don't know.
> > The carcass of the American state is large enough to have a lot of red
> > meat to keep the coalition together, and the filter bubbles are closed
> > enough to explain away when the inevitable negative consequences reach
> > the base, as you can already see with the outbreak of infectious
> > diseases due to low rates of vaccinations.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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