Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...

[Oliver Gassner via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>]

Am Mo., 14. Juli 2025 um 11:54 Uhr schrieb mp via nettime-l <
nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>:

>
>
> On 14/07/2025 08:33, Oliver Gassner via nettime-l wrote:
> > Nope, "WE" did not forget that.
> >
> > I opted for more aspects to be included in the argument.
> >
> > It is somewhat sad if that is rejected.
> >
> > Both sides are at fault.
>
> In a genocide, for the simple person, the ordinary human, it seems
> somewhat reasonable to choose sides.
>

Well, I for example am not "naturally" on one side, although I carry as a
one and only passport a German one and feel a certraiun responsibility for
a 'never again' that can be interpreted strictly (never againb a Holocaust
demanding Jewish victims) or looselyx (never again genocide).
So I choose a position where I look at the situation and ask myself: "What
is need for a peaceful resolution of the situation?"
There is no necvessity to take up a gun and join the one or the other side.

I also find hardly a sensible human that is fond of Genocide in general or
specifically against the Palestinians.
My information is that the hardliners on the Israeli side and the
hardliners in Hamas have a different view here. Hamas, I am told, I have
not read any oprimary sources, has a policy of killing all Jews or at least
all those in Israel.

So I think it _is_possible to say:
"You are wrong (attacking civiuliarns, raping women, killing partygoers) -
and you, too (bombing civilians, starving civilians, being violent
settler)."
.
Saying: "Oh, this is genocide and this is self-defense"--- well, I find
this hard. This is not a case of "This is a bird, this is a plane."

In summary up to here: Taking sides does not seem to solve the problem.

Conversely, would it be reasonable to say something like: Well, the Jews
> had banking connections, so they were also at fault for the Holocaust?
>

Um? I am not even sure an old or new Nazi would put it THAT simply ;) So I
am ignoring this line.


> At any rate, West Asia has been a battle ground and frontier for
> European identity, trade routes and colonialism for a thousand years.
>

Yup.

Richard Lionheart was the good guy, right?
>

I don't care ;)
Making an argument like: "The oppressed can to anything to get back to
their oppressors." seems just dependent on who defines him/herself as
oppressed. (I find it interesting to watch 'Andor' Season 1 AND 2.... makes
the rebellion look different from SW 4...

Palestine is not merely about Hamas and IDF. That's just a contemporary
> snapshot.
>

It is nice tto see we agree on something. Let's work from here onwards ;)


> As Pankaj Mishra (more or less) says: Palestine today signifies the
> collapse of the western world/word order.
>

Uhm, not sure.

I find it interesting I am told by some people, that the Jews, I mean:
Israelis are 'white'. They are surely not perceived this way in Europe. (I
am also told Turkish immigrants in Germany are 'white', which is probably
not what most Germ,ans would 'see'.
So I find it hard to define things like the "westren world" (looking at
trump, is he part of that?= Or other classifications. May they be queer,
gay, white etc.


> In that vein, the genocide becomes a systemic inevitability, a convulsion.
>
>
Not sure I understand that sentence. So you say: One group needs to kill
the other to have peace? Germans and Fremnch have been killing each other
for centuries (after being 'brothers' dynastically). We managed to stop and
maybe another 50 years and all grudge is gone.


> The emperor is not naked yet -- but his fine fabric of moral
> superiority, Reason, rule of law, is nothing but war, and in flames.
>
> Then we prepare to build from love, with care, in the ashes...
>

OK, lemme say it like this: I do not want to say anything about YOU, but
that sentence to me as a German rings like some speech snippet
frem 1933-45...
(Then again I still need to read 'Der Untergang des Abendlandes' and I am
not sure I ever will.=

Oliver
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