Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...

[Louis Rawlins via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>]

Hi Peeps.

In the very postmodern sense, I'm gonna just share (what I'm pretty sure I
shared before) on this list as a quick history for folks that like to have
history categorized. Temporalessness. Nowness. All that stuff. I'm not
present enough in this dialogue to feel fully present to the participants
(belligerents?), but I feel compelled to share what I've previously found
mighty helpful in understanding our present.

===
RASHID KHALIDI


*THE NECK AND THE SWORD*
*Let’s start with the present, not just in the sense of the horrors being
inflicted on Palestine right now, but the present as part of Palestine’s
still-active past. The brutal Anglo-Zionist repression of the great Arab
Revolt of 1936–39 was followed by the Nakba of 1948, the Six-Day War in
1967, the 1982 siege of Beirut, led by Ariel Sharon, and the massacres of
Sabra and Shatila, the two Intifadas, the continuous raining down of terror
by Israel since then. Yet the post-October 7 genocide seems to have had a
bigger global impact than any of these.*
Yes, something has shifted globally. I’m not sure why those historic
episodes did not have the effect of completely changing the narrative—the
popular narrative, in particular. I don’t want to speculate about things
like social media. But this has been the first genocide that a generation
has witnessed in real time, on their devices. Was it the first in recent
times in which the us, Britain and Western powers were direct participants,
unlike others, in Sudan or Myanmar? Did the work of pro-Palestinian
advocates over a generation or more prepare people for this? I don’t know.
But you are right that as a result of the horrors that have been inflicted
on Gaza over eight continuous months, and which are still being inflicted
now, something new has happened. The displacement of three quarters of a
million people in 1948 did not produce the same impact. The 1936–39 Arab
Revolt is almost completely forgotten. None of those earlier events had
anything like this effect.
===
https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii147/articles/the-neck-and-the-sword

There is a paywall, but the summary ought to give an adequate jumping-off
point. Suffering ain't new and confusing state-sanctioned violence with
truth causes all humans harm – regardless the parties or perspectives.


I'm coming from a position that is biased towards New Left Review and a
search for anything resembling communitarianism, socialism, eg: whatever
helps people see that our fates are bound and intertwined.

Apologies in advance for lack of response, as I'm prone to checking nettime
threads when I see multiple digests pile-up which indicates to me a thread
of concern. I've got my own navigations of disability and fulltime work, so
I'll leave it at me enjoying having a minute on a Sunday to make contact
with a wider world.

Hope everybody's well. Hope people feel filled-in or fulfilled by these
dialogues: that's why I'm here on nettime. Our relationship builds meaning
for me in this increasingly arbitrary project that we call globalism (or
whatever).

Peace,  Louis

------------------------------
louisrawlins.com
248-808-8908


On Sun, Jul 13, 2025 at 8:41 AM <nettime-l-request@lists.nettime.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Support Palestine Action and go to jail ... (Keith Sanborn)
>    2. Re: Support Palestine Action and go to jail ... (Brian Holmes)
>    3. Re: Support Palestine Action and go to jail ... (Keith Sanborn)
>    4. Re: Support Palestine Action and go to jail ... (Keith Sanborn)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2025 09:21:28 -0400
> From: Keith Sanborn <mrzero@panix.com>
> To: nettime-l@lists.nettime.org
> Subject: Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...
> Message-ID: <2D256F5C-8A76-4B13-85EF-0E0B874098BC@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Oh, did we forget that genocide is bring carried out against the
> Palestinians by the official policies and actions of the IDF and the
> actions of terrorist ?settlers? with impunity and with the explicit support
> of the IDF as well as terrorist organizations like AIPAC who work
> tirelessly to promote the military support of Israel by the US which makes
> this possible?
>
> Keith Sanborn
>
> > On Jul 13, 2025, at 5:49?AM, Oliver Gassner via nettime-l <
> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?Am Sa., 12. Juli 2025 um 19:09 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens <
> > patrice@puscii.nl>:
> >
> >>
> >> Oliver,
> >> That Hamas is a terrorist organisation is generally well known to the
> >> readers of both Nettime and The Guardian, the latter ritually
> mentioning 7
> >> October in every article about the Gaza situation. So your making Owen
> >> Jones' opinion piece for 'a little less convincing' because it does not
> >> mention it must be read in my opinion as 'this whole Owen Jones stand by
> >> Palestine Action piece is biased, pro-terrorist bullshit'.
> >>
> >
> > Patrice,
> >
> > Well, I can hardly tell you what has to happen in your brain when you
> read
> > my words.
> > If you knew me, you'd know, that if I had meant that I'd have written
> that.
> >
> > A line like "being pro-Palestine does not of course mean one is pro-Hamas
> > and it's actions" would have been enough.
> >
> > NOT mentioning Hamas at all seems ... negligent if not... intentional.
> > I would even refrain from suggesting the one or the other.
> >
> > Also, showing understanding for terrorist actions does not condone them.
> >
> > Let's look at the argument analytically.
> >
> > It is: "Being pro-Palestine does not mean you are a terrorist."
> > (The article ends here ;)
> > Let us continue waking Socrates and Plato from the dead.
> > "Now, why would one think so?"
> > "Because in Gaza there is a semi-administrative semi-military/terrorist
> > group called Hamas that has been attacking Israel for years, is sworn to
> > destroy Israel and (is said to have) orchestrated the October attacks
> that
> > mainly targeted civilians and included killing kids and raping women"
> > "Ah, so pro-Palestinian means pro-Hamas?"
> > "No, many Palestinians are against Hamas but do not dare to speak out for
> > fear of being killed by Hamas. Being pro-Palestinian means, that one is
> > opposed to the death and starvation that the plaestinians both in gaza
> and
> > the west bank are subjected to."
> > "Ah, so I can be anti-terrorist, anti-Hamas and pro Palestinian?"
> > "Yup."
> > "I get your argument now."
> > ===
> > But you are of course welcome to think whatever you want, as long as you
> do
> > not claim that your thoughts reflect reality.
> >
> > Oliver
> >
> >
> >> ------------------------------
> >> *From: *"Oliver Gassner" <fraktal@gmx.de>
> >> *To: *"<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> >> collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" <
> >> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> >> *Cc: *"Patrice Riemens" <patrice@puscii.nl>
> >> *Sent: *Saturday, 12 July, 2025 16:50:52
> >> *Subject: *Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...
> >>
> >> Well, the word Hamas (which is rather undoubtedly a terrorist
> organization
> >> - not only after the October attacs) and also differentiate between
> Hamas
> >> and 'ordinary Palestinians' would have do the (otherwise very good)
> >> argument, a whole lot of good.
> >> Without that mention, I fear, it is a little less convincing.
> >>
> >>> Am Mi., 9. Juli 2025 um 15:20 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens via
> nettime-l <
> >>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ... and never mind the Suffragettes!
> >>>
> >>> Original to:
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/09/palestine-action-britain-support-protest-law
> >>
> >>
> >> ....
> >>
> > --
> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > # more info: https://www.nettime.org
> > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2025 10:12:10 -0500
> From: Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com>
> To: "<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>         collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets"
>         <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> Subject: Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CANuiTgyzzyr6pPWTrCv_9v46RpSzD5Ua-7hEGDkPbCQwQSrRbQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> It's hard to see any meaning whatsoever in the word terrorist, when the
> supposedly legitimate Israeli state supports mob violence by settlers and
> uses its army to commit indiscriminate murder and mass destruction of
> property every day.
>
> An oppressed and effectively caged people mounted a violent insurgency
> against a historically violent enemy. That enemy, true to its history,
> proceeded to carry out a genocide. This is terrifying, but I can't make out
> who is or is not a terrorist. Sure, Hamas has sworn to destroy Israel for
> years. But Israel has destroyed countless Palestinian villages over many
> many decades, they've stolen land, assassinated tens of thousands, put
> others into camps and prisons, the list of atrocities is endless.
>
> Given that the hardware for all the current death and destruction comes
> from the US and Europe, I don't know how to believe in the moral high
> ground that a term like terrorism would claim. Kafka got it right in his
> last novel, Amerika, where the protagonist entering New York harbor is
> struck by the sight of the sword held aloft by the Statue of Liberty. "So
> high," he marvels.
>
> BH
>
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2025 at 4:49?AM Oliver Gassner via nettime-l <
> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:
>
> > Am Sa., 12. Juli 2025 um 19:09 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens <
> > patrice@puscii.nl>:
> >
> > >
> > > Oliver,
> > > That Hamas is a terrorist organisation is generally well known to the
> > > readers of both Nettime and The Guardian, the latter ritually
> mentioning
> > 7
> > > October in every article about the Gaza situation. So your making Owen
> > > Jones' opinion piece for 'a little less convincing' because it does not
> > > mention it must be read in my opinion as 'this whole Owen Jones stand
> by
> > > Palestine Action piece is biased, pro-terrorist bullshit'.
> > >
> >
> > Patrice,
> >
> > Well, I can hardly tell you what has to happen in your brain when you
> read
> > my words.
> > If you knew me, you'd know, that if I had meant that I'd have written
> that.
> >
> >  A line like "being pro-Palestine does not of course mean one is
> pro-Hamas
> > and it's actions" would have been enough.
> >
> > NOT mentioning Hamas at all seems ... negligent if not... intentional.
> > I would even refrain from suggesting the one or the other.
> >
> > Also, showing understanding for terrorist actions does not condone them.
> >
> > Let's look at the argument analytically.
> >
> > It is: "Being pro-Palestine does not mean you are a terrorist."
> > (The article ends here ;)
> > Let us continue waking Socrates and Plato from the dead.
> > "Now, why would one think so?"
> > "Because in Gaza there is a semi-administrative semi-military/terrorist
> > group called Hamas that has been attacking Israel for years, is sworn to
> > destroy Israel and (is said to have) orchestrated the October attacks
> that
> > mainly targeted civilians and included killing kids and raping women"
> > "Ah, so pro-Palestinian means pro-Hamas?"
> > "No, many Palestinians are against Hamas but do not dare to speak out for
> > fear of being killed by Hamas. Being pro-Palestinian means, that one is
> > opposed to the death and starvation that the plaestinians both in gaza
> and
> > the west bank are subjected to."
> > "Ah, so I can be anti-terrorist, anti-Hamas and pro Palestinian?"
> > "Yup."
> > "I get your argument now."
> > ===
> > But you are of course welcome to think whatever you want, as long as you
> do
> > not claim that your thoughts reflect reality.
> >
> > Oliver
> >
> >
> > > ------------------------------
> > > *From: *"Oliver Gassner" <fraktal@gmx.de>
> > > *To: *"<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > > collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" <
> > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> > > *Cc: *"Patrice Riemens" <patrice@puscii.nl>
> > > *Sent: *Saturday, 12 July, 2025 16:50:52
> > > *Subject: *Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...
> > >
> > > Well, the word Hamas (which is rather undoubtedly a terrorist
> > organization
> > > - not only after the October attacs) and also differentiate between
> Hamas
> > > and 'ordinary Palestinians' would have do the (otherwise very good)
> > > argument, a whole lot of good.
> > > Without that mention, I fear, it is a little less convincing.
> > >
> > > Am Mi., 9. Juli 2025 um 15:20 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens via
> nettime-l <
> > > nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> ... and never mind the Suffragettes!
> > >>
> > >> Original to:
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/09/palestine-action-britain-support-protest-law
> > >
> > >
> > > ....
> > >
> > --
> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > # more info: https://www.nettime.org
> > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2025 11:38:23 -0400
> From: Keith Sanborn <mrzero@panix.com>
> To: nettime-l@lists.nettime.org
> Subject: Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...
> Message-ID: <782CE64C-3AA7-4FE2-9987-5ADAB76E78A8@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I march with Jewish Voice for Peace in NYC. The power of the zionist lobby
> is very strong here. AIPAC gives hundreds of thousands of dollars to US
> Senator Kristen Gillibrand who denounced fellow ?Democrat? Mamdani as a
> terrorist. ?Democrat? Andrew Cuomo took money from zionist lobbies and made
> an executive order while governor of New York that anyone supporting BDS cd
> not do business with the State of New York. It has not been enforced,
> however, as far as I know. But there is a chilling effect.
>
> Gillibrand?s strategic implicit or explicit support of Cuomo for mayor of
> NYC?by denouncing Mamdani?is extremely ironic since she called for him to
> step down as governor because of the multiple sexual harassment allegations
> against him.
>
> Apparently zionism trumps MeToo. Sad.
>
> > On Jul 13, 2025, at 11:13?AM, Brian Holmes via nettime-l <
> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?It's hard to see any meaning whatsoever in the word terrorist, when the
> > supposedly legitimate Israeli state supports mob violence by settlers and
> > uses its army to commit indiscriminate murder and mass destruction of
> > property every day.
> >
> > An oppressed and effectively caged people mounted a violent insurgency
> > against a historically violent enemy. That enemy, true to its history,
> > proceeded to carry out a genocide. This is terrifying, but I can't make
> out
> > who is or is not a terrorist. Sure, Hamas has sworn to destroy Israel for
> > years. But Israel has destroyed countless Palestinian villages over many
> > many decades, they've stolen land, assassinated tens of thousands, put
> > others into camps and prisons, the list of atrocities is endless.
> >
> > Given that the hardware for all the current death and destruction comes
> > from the US and Europe, I don't know how to believe in the moral high
> > ground that a term like terrorism would claim. Kafka got it right in his
> > last novel, Amerika, where the protagonist entering New York harbor is
> > struck by the sight of the sword held aloft by the Statue of Liberty. "So
> > high," he marvels.
> >
> > BH
> >
> >> On Sun, Jul 13, 2025 at 4:49?AM Oliver Gassner via nettime-l <
> >> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Am Sa., 12. Juli 2025 um 19:09 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens <
> >> patrice@puscii.nl>:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Oliver,
> >>> That Hamas is a terrorist organisation is generally well known to the
> >>> readers of both Nettime and The Guardian, the latter ritually
> mentioning
> >> 7
> >>> October in every article about the Gaza situation. So your making Owen
> >>> Jones' opinion piece for 'a little less convincing' because it does not
> >>> mention it must be read in my opinion as 'this whole Owen Jones stand
> by
> >>> Palestine Action piece is biased, pro-terrorist bullshit'.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Patrice,
> >>
> >> Well, I can hardly tell you what has to happen in your brain when you
> read
> >> my words.
> >> If you knew me, you'd know, that if I had meant that I'd have written
> that.
> >>
> >> A line like "being pro-Palestine does not of course mean one is
> pro-Hamas
> >> and it's actions" would have been enough.
> >>
> >> NOT mentioning Hamas at all seems ... negligent if not... intentional.
> >> I would even refrain from suggesting the one or the other.
> >>
> >> Also, showing understanding for terrorist actions does not condone them.
> >>
> >> Let's look at the argument analytically.
> >>
> >> It is: "Being pro-Palestine does not mean you are a terrorist."
> >> (The article ends here ;)
> >> Let us continue waking Socrates and Plato from the dead.
> >> "Now, why would one think so?"
> >> "Because in Gaza there is a semi-administrative semi-military/terrorist
> >> group called Hamas that has been attacking Israel for years, is sworn to
> >> destroy Israel and (is said to have) orchestrated the October attacks
> that
> >> mainly targeted civilians and included killing kids and raping women"
> >> "Ah, so pro-Palestinian means pro-Hamas?"
> >> "No, many Palestinians are against Hamas but do not dare to speak out
> for
> >> fear of being killed by Hamas. Being pro-Palestinian means, that one is
> >> opposed to the death and starvation that the plaestinians both in gaza
> and
> >> the west bank are subjected to."
> >> "Ah, so I can be anti-terrorist, anti-Hamas and pro Palestinian?"
> >> "Yup."
> >> "I get your argument now."
> >> ===
> >> But you are of course welcome to think whatever you want, as long as
> you do
> >> not claim that your thoughts reflect reality.
> >>
> >> Oliver
> >>
> >>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>> *From: *"Oliver Gassner" <fraktal@gmx.de>
> >>> *To: *"<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> >>> collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" <
> >>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> >>> *Cc: *"Patrice Riemens" <patrice@puscii.nl>
> >>> *Sent: *Saturday, 12 July, 2025 16:50:52
> >>> *Subject: *Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...
> >>>
> >>> Well, the word Hamas (which is rather undoubtedly a terrorist
> >> organization
> >>> - not only after the October attacs) and also differentiate between
> Hamas
> >>> and 'ordinary Palestinians' would have do the (otherwise very good)
> >>> argument, a whole lot of good.
> >>> Without that mention, I fear, it is a little less convincing.
> >>>
> >>> Am Mi., 9. Juli 2025 um 15:20 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens via
> nettime-l <
> >>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ... and never mind the Suffragettes!
> >>>>
> >>>> Original to:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/09/palestine-action-britain-support-protest-law
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ....
> >>>
> >> --
> >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> >> # more info: https://www.nettime.org
> >> # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org
> >>
> > --
> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > # more info: https://www.nettime.org
> > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2025 11:40:23 -0400
> From: Keith Sanborn <mrzero@panix.com>
> To: nettime-l@lists.nettime.org
> Subject: Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...
> Message-ID: <05276556-E3A9-4079-B4AD-84C9335C1A1E@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> So very high. And every day higher until it sinks into total and utter
> disgrace.
>
> > On Jul 13, 2025, at 11:39?AM, Keith Sanborn <mrzero@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?I march with Jewish Voice for Peace in NYC. The power of the zionist
> lobby is very strong here. AIPAC gives hundreds of thousands of dollars to
> US Senator Kristen Gillibrand who denounced fellow ?Democrat? Mamdani as a
> terrorist. ?Democrat? Andrew Cuomo took money from zionist lobbies and made
> an executive order while governor of New York that anyone supporting BDS cd
> not do business with the State of New York. It has not been enforced,
> however, as far as I know. But there is a chilling effect.
> >
> > Gillibrand?s strategic implicit or explicit support of Cuomo for mayor
> of NYC?by denouncing Mamdani?is extremely ironic since she called for him
> to step down as governor because of the multiple sexual harassment
> allegations against him.
> >
> > Apparently zionism trumps MeToo. Sad.
> >
> >> On Jul 13, 2025, at 11:13?AM, Brian Holmes via nettime-l <
> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?It's hard to see any meaning whatsoever in the word terrorist, when the
> >> supposedly legitimate Israeli state supports mob violence by settlers
> and
> >> uses its army to commit indiscriminate murder and mass destruction of
> >> property every day.
> >>
> >> An oppressed and effectively caged people mounted a violent insurgency
> >> against a historically violent enemy. That enemy, true to its history,
> >> proceeded to carry out a genocide. This is terrifying, but I can't make
> out
> >> who is or is not a terrorist. Sure, Hamas has sworn to destroy Israel
> for
> >> years. But Israel has destroyed countless Palestinian villages over many
> >> many decades, they've stolen land, assassinated tens of thousands, put
> >> others into camps and prisons, the list of atrocities is endless.
> >>
> >> Given that the hardware for all the current death and destruction comes
> >> from the US and Europe, I don't know how to believe in the moral high
> >> ground that a term like terrorism would claim. Kafka got it right in his
> >> last novel, Amerika, where the protagonist entering New York harbor is
> >> struck by the sight of the sword held aloft by the Statue of Liberty.
> "So
> >> high," he marvels.
> >>
> >> BH
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 13, 2025 at 4:49?AM Oliver Gassner via nettime-l <
> >>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Am Sa., 12. Juli 2025 um 19:09 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens <
> >>> patrice@puscii.nl>:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Oliver,
> >>>> That Hamas is a terrorist organisation is generally well known to the
> >>>> readers of both Nettime and The Guardian, the latter ritually
> mentioning
> >>> 7
> >>>> October in every article about the Gaza situation. So your making Owen
> >>>> Jones' opinion piece for 'a little less convincing' because it does
> not
> >>>> mention it must be read in my opinion as 'this whole Owen Jones stand
> by
> >>>> Palestine Action piece is biased, pro-terrorist bullshit'.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Patrice,
> >>>
> >>> Well, I can hardly tell you what has to happen in your brain when you
> read
> >>> my words.
> >>> If you knew me, you'd know, that if I had meant that I'd have written
> that.
> >>>
> >>> A line like "being pro-Palestine does not of course mean one is
> pro-Hamas
> >>> and it's actions" would have been enough.
> >>>
> >>> NOT mentioning Hamas at all seems ... negligent if not... intentional.
> >>> I would even refrain from suggesting the one or the other.
> >>>
> >>> Also, showing understanding for terrorist actions does not condone
> them.
> >>>
> >>> Let's look at the argument analytically.
> >>>
> >>> It is: "Being pro-Palestine does not mean you are a terrorist."
> >>> (The article ends here ;)
> >>> Let us continue waking Socrates and Plato from the dead.
> >>> "Now, why would one think so?"
> >>> "Because in Gaza there is a semi-administrative semi-military/terrorist
> >>> group called Hamas that has been attacking Israel for years, is sworn
> to
> >>> destroy Israel and (is said to have) orchestrated the October attacks
> that
> >>> mainly targeted civilians and included killing kids and raping women"
> >>> "Ah, so pro-Palestinian means pro-Hamas?"
> >>> "No, many Palestinians are against Hamas but do not dare to speak out
> for
> >>> fear of being killed by Hamas. Being pro-Palestinian means, that one is
> >>> opposed to the death and starvation that the plaestinians both in gaza
> and
> >>> the west bank are subjected to."
> >>> "Ah, so I can be anti-terrorist, anti-Hamas and pro Palestinian?"
> >>> "Yup."
> >>> "I get your argument now."
> >>> ===
> >>> But you are of course welcome to think whatever you want, as long as
> you do
> >>> not claim that your thoughts reflect reality.
> >>>
> >>> Oliver
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>> *From: *"Oliver Gassner" <fraktal@gmx.de>
> >>>> *To: *"<nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> >>>> collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets" <
> >>>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>
> >>>> *Cc: *"Patrice Riemens" <patrice@puscii.nl>
> >>>> *Sent: *Saturday, 12 July, 2025 16:50:52
> >>>> *Subject: *Re: <nettime> Support Palestine Action and go to jail ...
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, the word Hamas (which is rather undoubtedly a terrorist
> >>> organization
> >>>> - not only after the October attacs) and also differentiate between
> Hamas
> >>>> and 'ordinary Palestinians' would have do the (otherwise very good)
> >>>> argument, a whole lot of good.
> >>>> Without that mention, I fear, it is a little less convincing.
> >>>>
> >>>> Am Mi., 9. Juli 2025 um 15:20 Uhr schrieb Patrice Riemens via
> nettime-l <
> >>>> nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ... and never mind the Suffragettes!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Original to:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/09/palestine-action-britain-support-protest-law
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ....
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> >>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> >>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> >>> # more info: https://www.nettime.org
> >>> # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org
> >>>
> >> --
> >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> >> # more info: https://www.nettime.org
> >> # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org
> > --
> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > # more info: https://www.nettime.org
> > # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> --
> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> # more info: https://www.nettime.org
> # contact: nettime-l-owner@lists.nettime.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 8
> ****************************************
>
-- 
# distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
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