| Hi, just to make this clear once and for all : • I am not a bigot, fascist, alt-right troll or what not. • maybe i was a bit naiev in thinking that Alexander Bard was just a nuisance and someone with a rather unpleasant talk. Florian was so kind to notify me of his connections and rather suspect affiliations. I did not know that, nor that I read his stuff very precesily for I could smell from a distance the pahtological nature of it. • I did want to ‘silence’ anyone; nor that I wanted to sound or act in a patronizing or condescending way. I just wanted to ease Angela, in what struck me as a slightly paranoid reaction to a stupid rant (Alexander’s). I now can understand better the sensitivities that have burst out. • I recommend to know your real enemies, and fight them accordingly. I do not fall in that category, nor do I want to be pushed in such a position. Having a productive discussion on things that matter!
best, w
about that
> dear angela,
> relax dear.
> it is ok.
> noone is recruiting anyone here.
> chill.
> best,
> w
so, is that it? silence about this from the whole list except from angela? do you all not say anything because you think this is trolling or this is normal??
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: apropos of nothing (Angela Mitropoulos)
2. Re: apropos of nothing (Florian Cramer)
3. Re: Complexity and nostalgia (bronac ferran)
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 11:12:54 +1100
From: Angela Mitropoulos <angela.mitropoulos@gmail.com>
To: Nettime <nettime-l@kein.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> apropos of nothing
Message-ID:
<CANOG54eNOM7MpzRoZkGj4zo46=nC4P+2yPPMtN8HufBvvMwoAg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
It is a simple and straightforward question that I would like answered. It
makes no inferences about whether recruitment is effective, or even
deliberate rather than aesthetic. But I'm grateful for the evidence you've
furnished, dear, about the way in which women are told to calm down and
shut up, no matter the tone they take, so that those who think women and
black people are less than human and not entitled to take up space can keep
ranting on at length about how everyone other than white guys are less than
human. I mean, I'm grateful that you've illustrated the reason why I asked
this question in the first place. That said, I have no interest in debating
this further.
I simply repeat my question, and would like it answered. Preferably in the
negative. But if in the affirmative, then I would like to suggest that
Nettime be shuttered because any benefit it had for creating a better world
has long past. The world doesn't need a longform version of Gab, or Gab for
that matter.
Angela
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 10:29, Willem van Weelden <w.v.weelden@chello.nl>
wrote:
> dear angela,
> relax dear.
> it is ok.
> noone is recruiting anyone here.
> chill.
> best,
> w
>
>
> > On 03 Nov 2018, at 23:04, Angela Mitropoulos <
> angela.mitropoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a
> platform from which to recruit?
> >
> > Angela
> >
> >
> >
> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
> > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 13:15:16 +0100
From: Florian Cramer <flrncrmr@gmail.com>
Cc: Nettime <nettime-l@kein.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> apropos of nothing
Message-ID:
<CADCyihQJfoRHqWhC_1jnOi5nh5fcp9ihNw=NMXq7qoLiVFVcLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Alexander Bard is a typical example of a "Querfront" activist, and a member
of this right-wing party:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Coalition
-F
--
blog: *https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561
<https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561>*
bio: http://floriancramer.nl
On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 12:30 AM Willem van Weelden <w.v.weelden@chello.nl>
wrote:
> dear angela,
> relax dear.
> it is ok.
> noone is recruiting anyone here.
> chill.
> best,
> w
>
>
> > On 03 Nov 2018, at 23:04, Angela Mitropoulos <
> angela.mitropoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a
> platform from which to recruit?
> >
> > Angela
> >
> >
> >
> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
> > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>
> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org
> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 13:49:52 +0000
From: bronac ferran <bronacf@gmail.com>
To: a moderated mailing list for net criticism
<nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Complexity and nostalgia
Message-ID:
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Thank you very much for doing this Nina. Frankly I was just 'bard stiff'
after reading such flat, leaden prose by someone attempting and failing to
antagonise whilst posing libidinously, apropos of celebrity
https://twitter.com/Bardissimo/status/973224337976315907
Have filtered under BS.
Brona?
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 01:12, Nina Tempor?r <nina-temp@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> Wow, nettime?s very own James Damore moment -
> And hardly anyone calls him out.
>
> I cannot believe how easily so many people here allowed A.B. to
> intellectually-click-bait
> them into a discussion just because he whispered the magic words ?Marx?
> and ?class?,
> And willingly delivered him material to refine his language for his
> pseudo-philosophical
> White male ?ngst-driven project,
> Even after he had already lashed out in a dangerously generalized way
> against academia,
> After he had already generally denounced identity politics as self-pity
> and whining, after he
> Had claimed gender & race as having no social realities, after he had
> judged the welfare
> State as an infantilization of society and, on top of all, had totally
> ridiculously indulged himself
> In a teenage-like invention rage of cock-culture-worshipping neologisms
> that he obviously enjoys
> To decorate his little short-20th-Century binary phantasy land with.
>
> While a few of the answers with serious reactions to the classism question
> were really a
> Pleasure to read and very much worth considering under different premises,
> I don?t understand
> why almost nobody here (except for Alice, Ian, and Florian - thanks for
> your interventions) did see
> The contradiction that the very same people he claims to be wanting to
> work with in that new class
> War he dreams of, get insulted so badly and in a hierarchy-reproducing
> manner, that a future
> Cooperation is being boycotted before it has even started.
>
> Is that really only a sad lack of strategic thinking? Or not rather
> revealing how inclusive his
> New class war phantasy actually is, and whose perspective he expects to be
> adopted as
> Conceptual lead?
>
> There is a big difference between disagreement and lashing out in a way
> that reveals absolute
> Entitlement, and even worse: the assumption to be ?safe? when stating such
> stuff in a place
> Like nettime mailing list.
>
> It?s so tiring to be forced to point out, once more, that entitlement is
> key in this problematic:
>
> While Alexander and his followers have very well understood that investing
> into digital literacy
> Is an absolute necessity if they want to survive in these times, any
> knowledge update in relation to
> Gender & anti-racism debates is shrugged of as community-specific
> expertise (and commented
> With the reproach of having an only self-healing effect) instead of
> understood as the fundamental,
> Constitutive (not so new) change of perspective, without which
> no thorough analysis of class
> Struggle can withstand.
>
> It was really interesting to read Dan?s report/ analysis of the beginning
> of ?identity politics? in the US
> (In Europe, I assume, this is a slightly different story) and
> his acknowledgement/ claim that it is his
> Generation's own fault not to have passed on the historic context to the
> next generation.
> I would really like to engage in this discussion by asking if it is really
> about the lack of history in a
> Negative sense, or, if the (assumed) lack of history/ continuity might not
> be _expression_ of a generally
> Positive phenomenon: the attitude of a generation being sick of any kind
> of further waiting and gradual
> Development, legitimately bold enough to demand full acceptance here and
> now - even if this leads to
> A roundhouse-kick-radicality that sometimes feels moralizing and partly
> unfair even to antecedent
> activists. (And no, I am not part of that generation and often enough
> annoyed myself, but try to
> Understand.)
>
> I?m not keen of discussing it in a context, though, where Alexander Bard
> can blatantly display his near-hatred
> Anger on certain minority activism without being sanctioned, just days
> after a shooting in a synagogue and
> Lethal threats to critics of Trump, with daily Police brutality towards
> POC, regular attacks on homes for asylum
> Seekers in Germany, harassment of anti-Trump academics in the US
> and similar harassments of academics
> Criticising right-wing politics now - even structurally organised - by the
> AfD in Germany as well, and ongoing
> And normalised discrimination of and assaults on women.
> Incitement to violence is a spark easily ignited these days.
>
> Last but not least, I have the impression A.B. never really had to speak
> up for himself against a mainstream
> Opinion, otherwise he would know how much courage it takes and that it is
> no way just 'fighting for one?s
> Own good? but helps numerous others affected by that norm, and that
> keeping quiet and adapting, even at
> The high price of ongoing unfair treatment, is often the easier way.
>
> It seems to be necessary to point out that repeating just a mainstream
> opinion, once it is tumbling and
> Forced to open up to multi-perspective views, does n o t count as such.
>
> Best, N
> Ps: Alice and Ian, your mails arrived while I wrote this, thanks again
>
>
> Am 03.11.2018 um 18:30 schrieb Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com
> >:
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 7:11 AM Felix Stalder <felix@openflows.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2018, 6:07 AM Alexander Bard <bardissimo@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>
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--
Brona?
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